$850 CLEANING OUT THE HANGAR Sensenich 74DM, re pitched to 55'pitch, good length at 73.75'. Sold as is, looks in good shape.No paperwork, No returns.
Has been stored in my hangar for a few years. A customer was going to put it on his plane(0-320 powered) but never got around to finishing his project. Now he has lost his medical. Should fit a number of applications. 850.00 plus applicable shipping.
Contact -, Friend of Owner - located Westfield, MA USA Telephone: 413 568 7300 Posted August 17, 2018 .
I have an old prop that i would really like some more info on. I used to have the site address for a group of prop collectors, but I seem to have lost it. If anyone can provide that address I would be very appreciative. Just in case someone here can shed some light on this prop, I have enclosed some pictures.
The shape really strikes me as sometime in the 30's, but there are some things that may point the other way. For one thing, as you can see from the pic of the straight edge placed against the rear face of the prop, it is absolutely flat whereas later props were contoured on both faces of the prop. It also has an eight hole hub whereas the later hubs were more commonly six holes. It is 98 inches long (8' 2' or 249 cm). If you see the black lines across the face of the prop, that is the line above which there used to be fabric, apparently torn off by someone in order to make the prop 'prettier' for a new coat of varnish (of which it only received part). The story that came with it was that it came off an old flying boat, but I have no way of knowing whether there is any truth at all in that story.
So far as I can tell, it is totally devoid of markings except to mark one blade as blade 1 and the other as 2. (The 2 shows up in one of the pics. If you know why they would number the blades on a prop with non detachable blades, that will be worth the price of admission alone!) The only other marking is a deeply struck 'B5255' around the hole for the propeller shaft. These markings are very deep. If someone sanded so much that they took off the other markings, this prop must be a lot smaller than it used to be! Judging from the marks in the hub, the shaft was splined.
If anyone has any insight at all I would appreciate it. I would be surprised if it is WW1, but you never know. Even if you don't know anything but the name of the propeller fans' website, I would appreciate it. Matt (Propeller? That was a joke son.You need a bigger mitt boy, they're going right over your head!). I have an old prop that i would really like some more info on. I used to have the site address for a group of prop collectors, but I seem to have lost it.
It's hard to say who made a prop without having the decal or some sort of proving stamps or inscriptions. Sometimes the maker would etch a text into the central hub or one of the blades that told you which kind of engine or even which aircraft type the prop was rated for, example: Unfortunately it looks like you are SOL in that department.
I keep wishing that somebody published an book entitled 'The definitive illustrated guide to aircraft propellers of WWI' but so far as I know there isn't one. The propeller-heads website: Their forum. Thanks much for the website. At this point I think my only hope is that someone will recognize the hub number or the form of the prop.
Thanks again. (Of course, anyone out there with a theory is still free to pitch it.) Matt The best bet is actually to go by the general shape of the prop, it's features and the number. If this was a German prop it looks vaguely like those made by a manufacturer named 'Schwarz' but it could just as easily be French or British. There was a lot of cross border license manufacture in the aircraft industry prior to WWI. Pfalz, for example built French Moranes under license and Gotha built Avro seaplanes under license.
Oberursel engines were actually French Gnomes built under license. The thing to do is go to a specialist forum like the one I linked to and ask. Sooner or later somebody will be able to give you a very well educated guess as to the identity. Remember that this prop could easily date from the WWI period and into relatively modern times.
They continued to make wooden props essentially similar to those used on WWI aircraft into the 1950s and even the 60s and as far as I know there are still a few specialists who make wooden props. It appears to have a 'safety' yellow painted tip.
Was this even done in WW1?? I'm asking because I don't know. I've never seen painted (yellow) tips on any props except those in WW2. I've seen painted propeller tips on WWI props and the metal coating of the tips and edges was also done, usually in brass. As for colors I'm not really a prop expert. This prop could easily come from something used during WWII and made by any number of US/British/German/Soviet manufacturers.
Sensenich Wood Propeller Serial Numbers
People tend to think any wooden prop is WWI and get really disappointed when they walk into an auction house and find out it came from a WWII trainer sold as surplus to a crop-duster company in 1946. It brings the price down from thousands or even tens of thousands of dollars to hundreds of dollars or less. Sensenich bros prop built between 10/43 and 12/43.
Well that's pretty specific! Any idea what it was from? No disappointment here whatever it was from. I got it for free from my uncle who flew B 17s with 15th AF during WW2. He's the one who was told (by whoever he got it from) that it was from a pre war era flying boat. I am surprised to hear its from WW2 though, only because their is no contour to the rear face of the prop: it is a very flat reverse. I had read that by the late twenties they had learned that was not as aerodynamically efficient as providing some curve to the rear face.
Wood Propeller
Apparently I was misinformed? It does look a LOT like the prop on a PT 22 (a personal favorite). I would not have said the PT 22's prop was eight feet long (but that can be deceptive when actually on an aircraft). It's even Sensenich Bros.!
Looks you may have nailed it Rob. How did you know so quickly? (Or do you think its from another machine?). Thank you very much Ben.
I didn't realize any of the Stearmans used a wooden prop like this: I thought they were all variable pitch metal props. In looking at some of the Stearman images on Google, however, some of them clearly have full wooden props like this. I didn't see any that were to the quality of the PT 22 pictures I attached earlier, but a couple do look very much like my prop. My father and uncle would both be chagrined: as many hours as they had in Stearmans, you would think they would have recognized the prop off one (but my bet is they were flying the metal prop versions). Thanks again Ben.
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Choosing between a fixed pitch wood or a fixed pitch metal airplane propeller While wood propellers are not certified for many airplanes, for those for which they are certified there are some advantages:. Wood props are lighter and result in an increase in payload. Wood propellers cause less vibration. While metal props accumulate invisible flaws from vibrations and flexing, wood props are not affected. In the event of a prop strike, the wooden propeller will itself be destroyed but in most cases not damage the crankshaft. After a metal prop strike, the engine should be disassembled and inspected.
Wood props must be sent back to the factory for overhaul. Wood props are generally the less expensive choice. Most newer airplane designs require metal aircraft propellers:. Metal propellers are more efficient because of a thinner airfoil design.
A certified prop shop can change the pitch of a metal propeller. (This change in pitch must of course comply to the manufacturer’s specifications.). Metal propellers can be overhauled at any FAA certified propeller facility. Metal propellers retain their value better than wood as a trade-in for resale. Type Certificates A is awarded by aviation regulating bodies to aerospace manufacturers after it has been established that the particular design of a civil aircraft, engine, or propeller has fulfilled the regulating bodies' current prevailing airworthiness requirements for the safe conduct of flights under all normally conceivable conditions (military types are usually exempted). Aircraft produced under a type certified design are issued a Standard Airworthiness Certificate.
If the manufacturer or some other organization or person wants to make a major change to the design or use of the product, approval from FAA must be obtained. In these cases, the FAA issues a or type certificate. To look up a specific Type Certificate for your aircraft, they are available at the FAA website at the address below: Hold down the control key to access all links: http://www.airweb.faa.gov/RegulatoryandGuidanceLibrary/rgMakeModel.nsf/MainFrame?OpenFrameSet. What Federal Regulation governs my aircraft? FAR - Federal Aviation Regulation-federal laws and statutes govern all US aviation operations. Part 91 - the section of the FAR's that govern the operation of any general aviation flight. Many corporate flight departments and all non-professional pilots function under these rules.
Ninety-five percent of aircraft in the United States function under Part 91. Part 121 - the section of FAR that governs major airline operations.
Part 135 - the section of FAR that governs any charter flight. These 'rules' are actually federal laws and they specify in great detail the requirements for equipment in the airplane, the training minimums and operational limits for the pilots, flight attendants, and maintenance personnel. PART 61, 141, 142 - the section of FAR covering pilot certification and flight school operations: the pilot certification and standard flight school (Part 61), the integrated curriculum type school (Part 141) requiring slightly fewer flying hours, and a new Part 142 program allowing replacement of more flight time with advanced flight simulators.
Here at Hartzell, we often get calls, emails, and messages from people interested in identifying historic wooden aircraft propellers. Hartzell Technical Representative Kevin Ryan has been on the front lines of fielding these types of calls for us at our prop shop.
Here’s a about a recent WWII propeller that he helped identify. We recently sat down with him to talk a little about the process of identifying historic aircraft propellers. Distinguishing Modern vs. Early Wooden Propellers The first resource Ryan directs people to when they call about identifying propellers is “They not only have all of our propellers there,” says Ryan, “but they’ve got a lot of information from other manufacturers of wooden propellers. They have it broken down into two pieces: really old early propellers and modern wooden propellers.
The early ones have some identifying features to them that the modern ones don’t. Generally, a really early wooden propeller is a lot longer than a modern one; eight feet, maybe longer. They usually have eight bolt holes and made of a darker wood. The blade patterns sometimes have a scimitar shape. The modern ones are shorter, usually between six and eight feet, usually have six bolt holes, and are made of lighter-colored wood.” Determining What Type of Propeller It’s also quite common for people to discover that what they thought was an aircraft propeller is something else entirely. “People think that they have airplane propellers,” Ryan says, “but they’re not.
Airboat propellers, for example, are usually much wider across the blade. They usually have flat ends. In other words, the blades don’t round out at the end or come to a point, they’re cut off flat. The other thing we get called about a lot are test clubs, which were used to test engines. Those blades don’t have any twist to them like an aircraft propeller. Instead, it’s a fixed airfoil. Sometimes they’re two blades, but they can have four or more.
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We also get calls about metal propellers that turn out to be from Hartzell fans. It looks like a little airplane propeller, but it’s only about two feet long and has either a half inch or three-quarter inch hole in the middle so you can attach it to an electric motor. They usually have Hartzell stickers on them that say Hartzell Propeller Fan Company. When people call and ask where it came from and I say, ‘well, it came off a fan,’ they’re usually kind of disappointed!” While there are some companies that put serial numbers onto their propellers which can give you identifying information, at Hartzell, we don’t have a system like that for our early wooden propellers. If your aircraft propeller came off a military aircraft, it may have identifying markings. According to Ryan, “The Army Air Corps didn’t want to buy a bunch of props from different manufacturers; one part number from Hartzell, another from someone else, so they had what they called a contract number. And the contract numbers were usually two digits followed by a ‘K.’ The first two digits stood for the year the contract was awarded.
So, you would have numbers like: 42K, 43K, 44K. If you see a part number like that on the propeller, that tells you it’s a military contract propeller.” While most of the aircraft that these propellers came from were probably service aircraft and not fighters, they are still important pieces of history. Assessing Propeller Value The one thing that everyone who contacts us has in common is that they want to know how much their old propeller is worth. Not even Ryan would hazard a guess on how much that propeller you’re hanging onto will go for, since this is highly dependent on the current market. That said, he could make some generalizations.
“The cheapest that I’ve ever seen one go would be $250,” Ryan says. “I always tell people go on eBay and look at the auctions that closed (on a similar propeller) that actually sold, and that’ll give you some sort of an idea of what they’re worth. The average price is probably about four or five hundred bucks.” Uncovering a Propeller’s Story As with any piece of history, many of those who uncover an older propeller are interested in verifying its story. “People call up all the time and they want to know if it’s authentic,” Ryan says, “because their grandpa told them that the prop was given to them by Charles Lindbergh or Amelia Earhart. But that’s usually not the case.” However, there was one instance when Ryan was able to assist an aviation enthusiast in verifying the veracity of his aircraft propeller’s story. “This one time,” Ryan says, “a guy called me up about a propeller given to a magician called Blackstone the Magician when this magician visited Piqua many years ago. For some reason or other, Hartzell made him a wooden propeller as a presentation piece.
I was sort of intrigued. In this case, the propeller had a date and a time and everything on it.
So I went down to the library here and went to the old microfiche, pulled the newspapers for that week, and verified that that magician was in town that week. I found an ad from the theater. There was even a story in the paper about how these people from Hartzell presented him with the propeller. So I printed those out and e-mailed them to the guy. He was really happy.” Questions?
If you have questions for our technical team at Hartzell, you can reach out to us via email at techsupport (AT) hartzellprop.com.
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